I enjoyed this conversation between Ava DuVernay and Terry Gross (NPR, Fresh Air), uploaded today.

It's maybe the most personal she's done – or at least, that I've heard/read thus far – and I think introduces the listener to other sides Ava, beyond the woman most of us know as the tireless publicist, markerter, filmmaker, and face of AFFRM.

Of course, those familiar with Terry Gross will appreciate her restrained though deeply probing, informed interview style here, which helps.

The conversation begins with Ava's latest work, Middle Of Nowhere, and then broadens, covering Ava's personal and professional life, past and present.

It's very informative and thoughtful; the segment during which she shares her strategy and struggles in booking theater screens for Middle Of Nowhere, was particular interesting to listen to, as were details on her youth, the exposure to other worlds outside of the one she grew up in, as well as her familial surroundings – all of which informed the person she would eventually become (an evolution that doesn't quite ever end).

It's almost 40 minutes long, and is embedded below: